Here's Dan's reply to my previous questions, which he wanted posted to
the list. My questions will follow at the end.
>In a message dated 9/15/98 10:18:51 PM, you wrote:
>[... Replies interspersed in the body of your note.]
>
>>>Hi Dan. Glad Steve posted your note. What does it take for a person,
>who's me or not, to get in your email correspondence course [re
permaculture]? Does it >take something like money? If so, how much? <<
>
>REPLY: There are various arrangements. The cheapest is to pay
everything up
>front for $1,000 + books. I'll paste the course protocol and reading
list to
>the end of this email. If money is tight, you can also monitor the
course,
>which is basically lurking, getting to hear class discussion, but not
>participating.
>
>>>Or can I barter? <<
>
>REPLY: Yes, some of the fee can be bartered, if you have something I
want and
>a way to get it to me. We are new on site and don't grow all our own
food
>yet, for example, and would prefer food grown responsibily. No barter
for
>books for obvious reasons.
>
>>>What's this
>Keyline cultivation business? What's the story? <<
>
>REPLY: It is too involved to describe in email. You will think it is
contour
>plowing, which it most definitely is not. We distribute the book (by P
A
>Yeomans of Australia) and we cover it in the course. You should read
the book
>3 or 4 times, though the new edition is a bit easier to grasp than the
>original text. It is also described very briefly, but enough to give
you an
>idea of whether or not you want more info, in one of our journals.
(Vol. 1,
>No. 3, international permaculture solutions journal). Both
publications are
>on the course reading list. We cover different aspects of keyline at
three
>different junctures in the course.
>
>>>We have a small farm
>which we just started to convert partly to organic this year. We had
>some pasture ground that hasn't been treated chemically for a long
time.
>We got some info out of Acres, USA and from various organic folks and
>decided to put granite dust and soft rock phosphate on our organic
>ground and other fields. So now you and others seem to say it's likely
>unneeded. That'd be great, but does it mean we'll have to learn some
>special techniques? Or would just the Keyline cultivation thing be
enuf,
>whatever that is?<<
>
>REPLY: need is a strong word. If you provide all the correct
conditions, the
>rock dust can jump start your soil. You aren't after all interested in
>eventual fertility but good wholesome yields sooner rather than later
as you
>need to make a profit, maybe even to keep the farm out of less
responsible
>hands. You certainly can't go wrong adding rock dust of the sorts you
>described, though you also have to provide organic matter and aeration
to get
>any benefit from it. Weeds and chisel plowing will help--the organic
matter
>doesn't have to be fancy. (Many weeds are mineral accumulators anyway.
Get
>them while they are succulent for faster breakdown and disk them in
before
>chisel plowing. If they foul the plow, wait a bit.
>
>>>We don't know much of anything about permaculture so
>far, unless it's just along the lines of organic gardening. Does
>permaculture work on a farm, or is it just for gardening, or small
scale
>growing? I'm posting this to the list, so if you don't answer
>everything, I hope someone else will. A recent soil test showed that
>we're low on calcium, phosphorus and sulphur mainly. I don't remember
>how many pounds per acre of each, but none was near zero. Can we
>actually get by without putting any lime on our fields too?<<
>
>
>REPLY: I'd really rather be answering these questins on the list so
more
>people can get the benefit of them. Retest your pH--the other rock
powders
>will have been helpful in nudging it up. Do not attenpt to raise pH
abruptly.
>If you keyline cultivate, organic activity in concert with your
>remineralization should have a buffering effect on pH. I can't
certainly make
>solid recommendations long distance. I'd have to walk the land. The
main
>thing wrong with lime as a soil ammendment is that it comes from strip
mines.
>(The granite and phosphate rock may be radioactive.) But change pH
GENTLY, so
>soil organisms can develop a new ecology. Or grow crops that do well
with
>what you have.
>
>>> I've been
>reading literature from CASI, Christian Agricultural Stewardship
>Institute of Dexter, Mo. From what you're saying, they must be wrong
>too, since they advocate applying rock dusts, when soil analyses
>indicate certain mineral needs. Organic growing is turning out to be
>about as complex as the alternative health field. It's hard to
determine
>which school of thought is most correct. I sure hope our rock dusts
>didn't give us radioactive soil. Aloha. Lloyd<<
>
>REPLY: Well that's done and there are benefits and disbenefits,
however it
>turns out. I don't think it is the end of the world, but something to
be
>aware of. Superphosphate comes from rock phosphate, of course, except
that it
>has been treated by sulphuric acid to make everything (including
radiactives
>and often relatively large amounts of cadmium) soluble. There is no
right
>and wrong. If I were your field consultant, I'd probably advise trial
plots
>of different approaches to see what works--and to keep those plots
going for
>years as they may have long-term effects that are not immediately
apparent.
>
>yes permaculture works for farms because it is an approach that
involves a
>design system, not judgements to scale. However we would encourage you
not to
>try to farm more land than you can know intimately, every square inch.
>Otherwise, you are changing things and not knowing the results, only
yield
>which is a tiny fraction of the total result of farming.
>
>We can give workshops or courses at your place, you can take our online
>course, or whatever. There are countless ways for you to proceed.
>
>If you want us to be part of that, let me know. I'll need to be paid,
of
>couse, or I'm better working with my own land.
>
>For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since
1982),
>Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
>consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and annual
correspondence
>courses via email. Copyright, 1998, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box
52,
>Sparr FL 32192 USA Internships. YankeePerm@aol.com
>
>We don't have time to rush.
>
>A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at
>http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/ypc_catalog.html
>Elfin Permaculture programs are listed at the Eastern Permaculture
Teachers
>assn home page: http://home.ptd.net/~artrod/epta/eptahmp.html
>
>========================
>
>Third Annual Permaculture Design Course Online Starts in November
>
> Elfin Permaculture's third Annual Permaculture Design Course Online
will
>begin at
>the end of November 1998. The in-depth course runs 5-6 months,
depending on
>class
>needs. The course includes at home reading assignments, instructor's
>"lectures"
>distributed via email, email class discussion of current themes and
student
>projects, a
>number of special student reports, and a permaculture design project
completed
>by each
>student. Successful completion of all course requirements leads to
>certification as an entry-
>level permaculturist.
>
> The course is particularly suited to people who cannot take two or
three
>weeks for a
>live permaculture course, people living in areas distant from such live
>courses, and people
>seeking a particularly in-depth training in permaculture. Advance
students
>may arrange to
>take the course at an advanced level. The course is not suitable for
people
>who require a
>more tactile approach to learning, unless arrangements are made to
hybridize
>the course
>with live training programs. (Email this address for details)
>
> As in all Elfin Permaculture programs, we offer some scholarships.
However
>for
> the online course the number of scholarships is very limited, with a
backlog
>of qualified applicants. Students are encouraged to seek funding from
>suitable donors.
>
> Elfin Permaculture has arranged several alternative approaches for
people who
>want
>exposure to the course material but cannot take the course at this
time. As
>in our previous
>online courses, we offer monitor status at a nominal fee, so people can
follow
>the course
>reading, receive special instructor's materials, and read class
discussion as
>they see fit. In
>addition, Elfin Permaculture offers for the first time a complete set
of
>reading assignments
>and course notes, on disk or in print. We are aware that for some
people,
>downloading
>email materials is not possible or is prohibitively expensive due to
time
>charges by their
>ISP. They can now receive the class materials by mail. In addition, we
will
>take up to two
>conventional correspondence students, on a one-on-one basis, at one
time,
>either via mail
>or email.
>
> The broad course outline is as follows:
> Section 1: Introduction and Basic Principles
> a) World ecological problems and interrelationships.
> b) Principles of natural design.
> c) Permaculture design concepts.
> d) Classical landscapes.
> e) Patterning, edges, edge effects.
> f) The Permaculture Design Report
> g) Principles of transformation (in process--you will get as much as
we
>have worked out at the moment--this is not part of ordinary
permaculture
>design courses).
> Section 2: Appropriate Technologies in Permaculture Design
> a) Energy--solar, wind, hydro, biomass, etc.
> b) Nutrient cycles--soil, microclimates, gardening methods,
perennials,
>tree
>crops, food parks, composting toilets, livestock, "pest" management,
food
>storage, seed
>saving, cultivated systems, forests, etc.
> c) Water--impoundments, aquaculture, conservation, etc.
> d) Buildings.
> Section 3: Social permaculture. Design Report.
> a) Design for catastrophe.
> b) Urban permaculture.
> c) Bioregionalism.
> d) Alternative economics.
> e) Village development.
> f) Final design reports and critiques.
> g) Final evaluation.
>
>For more information request the course protocol and reading list from
Elfin
>Permaculture
>at Permacltur@aol.com
>
>For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since
1982),
>Elfin
>Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
consulting and
>permaculture designs (since 1981), and annual correspondence courses
via
>email.
>Copyright, 1998, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192
USA
>Internships. YankeePerm@aol.com
>
>We don't have time to rush.
>
>A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at
>http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/ypc_catalog.html
>Elfin Permaculture programs are listed at the Eastern Permaculture
Teachers
>Assn. home
>page: http://home.ptd.net/~artrod/epta/eptahmp.html
>
Hi again Dan. It looks like the course covers how to redesign the world.
For now all I want to know is how to farm organically and at a profit.
The keyline cultivation method sounds most pertinent. How much is the
vol. 1, #3 issue of your International Permaculture Solutions Journal
that you say covers that method? And what address should I send the
check to? Thanks for the other info you provided. Aloha. Lloyd
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with "unsubscribe sanet-mg".
To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
"subscribe sanet-mg-digest".